A Kid’s Conversation On Systemic Racism, with Author Jordan Thierry: S2 Ep5

How Do We Talk To Our Kids About RacisM?

The conversation continues from in honor of Black History month, expanding on how to speak to our children about racism. Joined by Author, Jordan Thierry of A Kid's Book About Racism, we dive into why it was important to write this book for kids and grown ups alike. 

Jordan shares his experience as a young black man growing up in the world today, and how as white females - we can speak up and speak out against racism and be stronger allies to the Black community. 

For more of Jordans work in helping shape and share Black stories, please visit www.dreamchasemedia.com. 

Follow Jordan on IG @Jordan.Thierry + find more great stories for kids at A Kid's Book About  and excerpts from this conversation between Cyla and Jordan on IG at @akidsbookabout

All affiliate funds raised through this link are used to donate books from A Kid’s Book About series to fellow listeners and school libraries in neighboring communities.  Click here for 25% off your first 3 books! 

Transcription:

[1:01] Hey there, Jordan. Hey, Rachel, Cyla, how’s it going?
It's really good. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Jordan is the author of the kids Book About it.
Systemic-racism systemic racism. Yes. And we're so,
grateful that you could take time out of your busy schedule to talk with us today because,
we were both so moved by your message in your book and so grateful that you could bring kind of these really big ideas to kids and and and that we were able to share it with our listeners.
And you've been able to share it with the world essentially partnering with the kids book about So thank you for coming in today and chatting with us via zoom.

[1:46] Thank you Know, it's my pleasure. I'm happy to be here and excited to talk about the book.
Cool. Cool. So I'd like we would like to ask you some questions.
Yeah, ready to go.
Let's do it. So we're in Atlanta, Jordan. Where you where you calling from where you are today?

[2:06] Today? I'm actually in Phoenix, Arizona. It's warm and sunny and beautiful. And I'm happy to be here, uh, in the winter, but my home is Portland, Oregon.
And you could, you know, I have a little bit of Yeah, Northwest Heritage.
So Nice. Nice s. So maybe that's how you guys you came so connected with Jelani memory, the founder of a kids book about Is that how you guys know each other? Because their west coast as well, right?
Yeah. Jelani and I know each other from high school. We played basketball against each other in high school, so we've been friends for a long time.
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So sorry. You have some questions. We read the book and it early on in the book.
You dedicated this book to Carver an issue.
Are these young people? If so, how old are they?

[2:56] Ah, that's a great question. Uh, Carver and Isher are are my cousins, and
They are. I want to say six and 10. 6 and 10. 6, 11. Yeah.
So There, Right around your E.
Yeah. Yeah. And they live in a small town called the Ellsberg in Illinois.
Nice, nice moms from Chicago, originally Midwest. So I love that Good for you. So that was going to be one of our questions. To who are they? And you dedicated the book to them. But you know what?
What was kind of your drive for that or the reason behind writing a book for kids?
Yeah, so? Well, you know, aside from them being family there too, you know, young black boys who I think could benefit from what they reading what there would read in the book,
because I kind of wrote the book with them in mind and with younger versions of myself in mind, You know, to try to just, better understand the world around me, and and sort of why things were happening and sort of kind of what was previously unexplained kind of phenomena around.

[4:15] Um, the different experiences that young black boy can have in the United States compared to, you know, white kids or kids of other races in their community.
So, yeah, I wrote it with them in mind and with my younger version of myself in mind, and I see them is just like younger versions of me on my little brother. And so that's why I dedicated to them.
It's awesome. It's really beautiful. Well, as white girls, we appreciated it from another perspective, which was to put ourselves in the shoes of, you know, Yeah, yeah, someone else.
And some of the struggles that they may face to it was pretty eye opening for us. Wasn't it silent?
Yeah. Speaking of struggle early on in the book you mentioned it was hard to write. Can you explain why?
Yeah, well, I thought it was a very challenging book to write because it's a Children's book and.

[5:16] Uh, you know, I had Thio make sure that it was gonna be easy for kids to read on.
Bond, to be honest with you, you know, ah, lot of racism, a lot of systemic racism just doesn't make sense.
And so how to make it make sense is that I found it just really challenging.
And also, I had to kind of make a lot of generalizations because I couldn't go too in depth.
You know, the book could only be so long, and, I wanted it to be, you know, be something that you could read just in one sitting.
You know, for example, you know, I explained that, you know, people were brought over here from Africa and, you know, we're put into slavery, right?
But there's there's, you know, exceptions to all those things that are stated.
For example, there was also a some point, you know, black people that own slaves and had their own plantations.
Um, you know, there were, you know, white people who were indentured servants, which isn't, you know, the Samos slavery, but it's not necessarily the same freedom, you know,
I was trying to do the best I could while providing the big picture.

[6:37] Um, and sort of the the main facts of history while also leaving some room for the nuance and some of those exceptions.
And my hope is that you know, the book is just a conversation starter for kids to talk with the adults in their lives to help them,
understand some of those nuances in in that deeper context as it relates to their own personal family, their own personal ancestry, their own personal communities.
Yeah. So it sounds like you kind of answered our next question, which was going to be like, you know, you said it was hard, but you did it anyway.
And you must have some. You found a way to win, as we like to say, you powered through, and it sounds like you're why Behind that was to kind of explain, you know?

[7:29] Ah, little bit of history but how we got here and how the bubbles have changed over time.

[7:38] Yeah, and maybe how it applies to today and how we can all see ourselves or put ourselves in the shoes of others. So, um, that's really great. Yeah.
Do you wanna ask the next question?

[7:52] When you see systemic racism, What are some of the things you can do about it as a kid?

[7:59] How how can we How can we make change?

[8:04] Yeah, that's a great question. I love that questions I love.
Well, when you see systemic racism, I think the first thing, uh,
the most important thing is to speak up about it and to acknowledge it into knowledge, its existence,
on go ask the questions about, you know, why is this and to understand it or have someone explain it to you.
And sometimes when people can't explain it to you that that kind of helps prove the point that it's wrong and that there's a problem there on DSO when you see those things.
And if there's a situation where you can stand up for somebody because you feel like you know they're not being treated fairly or the rules are not fair for them in particular.
Um, speak up and see what you can, what you can do to change those rules.
And to help that, So they're not alone in in that understanding and ethics.

[9:03] It's really helpful as someone who's who's black to not be the one that always has to speak up about these things.
Especially when white people speak up about these things before me.
Oftentimes I'm happy because I don't have to be the minority. That's always calling out the racism.
Um, and it helps me. I feel like my reality is shared by you know, others.
Yeah, you know, Jordan, that brings to mind something else for me, as as a white mother.
I think oftentimes we don't talk enough about um, what our role is.
We know that we're to teach our own what's right and wrong.
But to stand up and speak out for others that are being judged or bullied or um not treated fairly is kind of a fundamental human right.
But then there's a small nuance there that it's sometimes hard to navigate, whereas, ah!

[10:05] Speaking up on black lives matters or speaking up on against racism.
As a white person, we think we're constantly trying to be conscientious and consider it and sometimes wonder if if.

[10:25] I want to say if it's our role. But do we have a right?
Um and I think of course, the answer is yes.
But it's nice to hear from you to say you appreciate that, because that,
that that part of the conversation I don't think is really spoken about enough and I hope to teach my my white daughter that whenever she sees that no matter what it is whether it's,
um, you know, racism against ethnicity or judgment against religion or even sexual orientation, that we speak up and stand up for each other because the human kindness is what we are, you know?
Yeah. Yeah, Rachel, Thank you. You know, I think, uh, some people have, ah, hard time.
White people have a hard time understanding this distinctions of when it's appropriate and when it's not appropriate, because certainly people have maybe try to speak up or spoken up and received some backlash from people of color.
And, you know, in my experience and in my understanding, um, the way that I see is appropriate is for this.
You know, not only do you have a right to speak up, you have a responsibility and obligation to speak up because, you know, this is, uh.

[11:45] You know is in my view, the responsibility of the oppressive group, if you will.
The privileged group, um, to help address those oppressions and those injustices.
And at the same time, you know, people have to understand that we're not looking two white people for the solutions.
We're looking for white people to acknowledge the problem and to call on their community to see the problem, recognize it and take action.
But the solution should come from the, you know, the oppressed group so if it's around race and it should come from people of color, black and indigenous people in particular.
But if it's around gender, you know, it's, you know, it should come from women.
Help solve those problems but men to the allies and supporting what women want to see change in the kind of fight that they you know, I really appreciate that perspective Thanks for sharing that with us. Absolutely. Yeah.

[12:50] Do you have some? You have some other questions to?
Okay, I will ask the next question. I could ask Jordan questions all day. He's great to talk to

[13:03] Why will They threw a curveball. So because it's a conversation, everything changes when you have a conversation, shes always dropping a tune.
This one will not do an episode without some sort of song?
A little light in love into it.
So even when we're talking about hard stuff, I appreciate that about you, Cyla some famous people.
Maybe that air in the space that you look up to that air making change as far as a systemic racism is concerned Who are some people that you really look into and lean to for inspiration?

[13:48] Oh, wow. Wow. Um, that is a great question, I think you know e wasn't prepared for that question.
I'm sorry, I think send it to me at the time. But that's okay.
There's so many of them. I saw a bunch of them on TV on.
Yeah, there's that.
There's absolutely a lot of you know I worked with a lot of this incredible activists.
And I really looked towards a lot of kind of radical women of color, um, to kind of help guide my politics and help me, you know, see the injustices and where the solutions are.
Um you know, thinking about people like Kimberly Crenshaw, who is, Ah, critical race theory in legal scholar.
I thinking about women like Latasha Brown, who, uh, helped change the the outcome in Georgia the elections. He's voting rights activists.
Um, you know, obviously Stacey Abrams, Aziz. Well, in that, uh, Stacey Abrams on a on a candle, that out of shot right now. But yeah, she's of course, the triumphant.

[15:08] Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Rachel Kilmer, who leads the organization called Dream Defenders out of California S o.
You know, there's there's a lot of people that that I mean Cornel West is someone who I always just been really inspired by a scholar, Aziz, a writer,
as someone who can speak really powerful e,
eloquently about injustice on about racism,
but also always has a message of sort of love and hope and acceptance on DSO, you know, he's a huge inspiration for me as well.

[15:49] That's awesome. And if I were you, I'd on if I were Mia's. Well, I'd be looking up to Ruby Bridges.

[15:59] Yeah, way talked a lot about her because she was a young black girl that faced ah ah, lot of racism when she was Silas age.
And we've learned a lot about how her and her mother's bravery walking through the color lines just to get her in education. So that's absolutely right. Great, Great.
Uh, example. Great example. Asylum.
Yeah, absolutely. So what? Do you have another question for Jordan, don't you?

[16:30] This might seem a little crazy of a question, but do you think humans are the only animals that experience racism?
Like our dogs air different colors, they're black and brown and the birds were picking on each other's, like pick on the tiny little chickadees and then dogs at the dog park.

[16:52] So from a kids perspective, you know its's does,
the animals like maybe there's some, you know, classism and it with not just humankind, but maybe in other places, too. What do you think about that, Jordan?
I think that's a great question. You know, I don't necessarily think that,
there is Ah you know, a layer of, like, organized, systemic racism or or sort of, uh, injustice with other animal species.
But there certainly is, Um, you know, bigger dogs.
Yeah, there's a you know, bigger dogs picking on little dogs.
Um, you know, maybe if you think about perhaps dogs that,
had really rough, uh, puppy hoods, if you will, on day, they, you know, grew up on the streets and they had to fight for themselves, or they were picked on and didn't have anyone to help them.
Sometimes those dogs, they have trauma. And sometimes those their dogs that need the most love and the most care, but also, you know, have sometimes, um, Overreactions to, you know, some of the things that they perceive this threat.
So I do think that animals experienced trauma and have those kind of responses to trauma in similar ways that humans can.

[18:19] That is a great answer in a fabulous example, Jordan on a really great way to explain it to the kids.
You know, that's something that you see kind of in a neutral space, because it's not humankind, and they're not using their words.
But it's like an energizing their barks. And there it's an energetic exchange of showing that, you know, if if a if a an animal being of any kind is experienced trauma, um, it's going to have a long term effect on.
Unfortunately, we see that historically from black and brown people and really, truly the foundation of racism and systemic racism like you so eloquently put together in your book.
So thank you for sharing that. Absolutely, thank you. It's a great question.
Yeah. Do you have any other suggestions on books? Or resource is to find more information on systemic racism.

[19:14] Oh, wow. Um, yeah, there's There's so many resource is out there for adults and kids. Abram X Candy has a book about anti racism for adults in the book about anti racism for kids.
Um, there's a couple of websites that have a plethora of resource is especially around Children's books, um, that are reflective of the diversity of this country on bond.
You know, one is called literally cultured dot com. That's great website Thea other is, uh we need more diverse books, Movement on day have a ton of books on their website as well.
Um, where you can find, you know, more targeted stories for African American, for Latin X and indigenous characters so, yeah, there's there's there's a lot out there.

[20:12] Awesome morning that I've enjoyed as a parent recently is tolerance dot org's, which is a great educational portal for for many different facets of of judgment, especially when it comes to race racism.
So that's that's great. Thank you for sharing that with us and with our listeners.
So Jordan, tell us, where can our friends find you for more great stuff or that you're working on?
Or maybe just in your creative process, you have a place we can send our friends toe, check you out?

[20:43] Yeah, my website is dream chase media dot com Dream chase media dot com. Or you could just find me on instagram Jordan dot Thierry

[20:53] We love it. Thank you so so much for being with us today. It has been a total pleasure.
Check out a kids book about systemic racism by our friends at the team at a kids book about, um, it's on the were right at the start of black history month, but it should always be black history month.
It's just a part of our foundation, and we need to teach your kids better.
So thanks for helping shape that narrative and making it a little easier for us to wrap our conversations around and don't grab Jordan's book and all the other great stories from a kids book about dot com.
That's right. Thanks for talking with me, Jordan.
I love it. Thanks for the thanks, Jordan. Bye bye.